Interview: Composer Tom Holkenborg on Crafting ‘Mad Max’ Scores | FirstShowing.net

Interview: Composer Tom Holkenborg on Crafting ‘Mad Max’ Scores

by Alex Billington
June 10, 2024

“I consider myself, I call it, a ‘full contact composer.’ I’m not a guy that sits behind a piano with a piece of paper…” Now playing in theaters worldwide is the newest awesome George Miller post-apocalyptic action movie – Furiosa: A Mad Max Saga. The movie kicks ass and so does its score. Just like with Mad Max: Fury Road, Furiosa features a score composed by Dutch musician Tom Holkenborg. Before getting into composing scores for movies, Holkenborg went under the moniker “Junkie XL” and was a techno DJ and producer crafting electronica remixes and tracks galore. After achieving mega fame as Junkie XL, he moved into composing – one of his first scores is for the video game movie DOA: Dead or Alive (2006). He later composed the scores for the sequels 300: Rise of an Empire (2014) and The Amazing Spider-Man 2 (2014), before being hired by George Miller to craft the intense rock n’ roll score for Mad Max: Fury Road (2015). It’s one of my all-time favorite scores, I still listen to it all the time. So when I was offered a chance to chat with Holkenborg for an interview, I couldn’t say no. Here is my brief conversation with him about Mad Max.

This one-on-one interview was conducted over Zoom with Holkenborg. The text has been transcribed and edited for clarity. I’ve been interview composers for a long time (here’s a good one with Hans Zimmer) and I love talking with them about the process, their inspirations, what it’s like working with filmmakers, and how they envision the sound for the movie they’re working on. These are the topics I covered with Holkenborg this time, though I wanted to go on and on talking more about his cooking inspiration, how exactly he used his gear to create the distinct Mad Max sound, and much more. Alas, there’s only so much time and I’m glad I had this much time to talk with him anyway. Holkenborg has created three scores for George Miller so far: in addition to the two Mad Max movies, he also composed the lighter, elegant score for Three Thousand Years of Longing (2022). He has also worked with Zack Snyder (on Justice League, Army of the Dead, Rebel Moon) and created the scores for Alita: Battle Angel, Terminator: Dark Fate, Divergent, Deadpool, Sonic the Hedgehog, and Godzilla vs. Kong. Without any further delay, dive into our conversation below…

I’m a big fan of your scores for the Mad Max movies, and especially love the track “Brothers in Arms” from Fury Road. I can listen to it on its own and enjoy it and feel totally energized by it, separate from the way it integrates into the scenes in the movie. I love how distinct that particular track is and how much it stands out as music beyond just being a movie score.

Tom Holkenborg: Well, first off thank you so much. Sometimes it’s really special and I’ve had it with a few movies, where the music has a life on its own outside of the reason why it was created in the first place. As an artist, I also had that… probably my claim to fame for a majority of the people on this planet is obviously the Elvis remix [listen here] which was a commercial I did for Nike – a soccer commercial for the World Cup in Asia. And it was made as music for a commercial, and then it became a number one hit. And it’s always a compliment when that happens. And I think it’s special when it does.

You are part of the new era of musicians / artists who have transitioned from being a part of a different world of music (rock bands or electronica or pop music) into movie composing. I find it fascinating because it opens the door to so many different sounds that we weren’t often hearing before. Most movie scores were orchestras and that’s all we heard, but now we have this whole new era of so many different creations and unique sounds. How do you feel about this evolution with so many moving on from bands and becoming composers?

Holkenborg: I want to go back a little bit in history because it has been happening for a hundred years or so. When John Barry did the arrangements for the first James Bond movie it was so refreshing the score was based on big bands – it was not based on the orchestra, it was big bands. Then in the 60s with alternative cinema in Europe, a lot of different, interesting, alternative 60s/70s bands started doing music for Italian and French cinema, which was really refreshing. In the 70s in the States, we had funk music and disco music all of the sudden being predominant in film scores. It was only because of John Williams that the orchestra was brought back in the late 70s into the 80s. He brought it back. But in the 80s, there were so many film scores that were made with typical 80s things. Then in the 90s it became a little bit more traditional. Then we started noticing more electronic music entering into the scene. Very famously, of course, the first Matrix and many movies after that. And it’s give and take. What we see right now is another wave of different types of approaches to film scores. And I think it’s an interesting landscape, especially when you watch streaming things sometimes they take a very experimental road to what the music can be. I really, really welcome it.

Yeah, me too. That’s what I enjoy about it. This is what cinema should be doing, progressing beyond… We shouldn’t have to stick with what is typically expected for a score and that’s it. And I do think it comes down to trusting and believing in the artists. Asking them to create and believing in them to come up with something that is entirely their own vision.

Holkenborg: The reason why this particular movie that just came out [Furiosa] is special to me is that from the very first inception of sound for this franchise – the Mad Max saga, back in 2013 – all the way to what you saw in the theater [now in 2024], I was able to massage the music exactly how I envisioned it. And in this particular movie, it was the first time for me that I was one of the re-recording mixers together with Rob Mackenzie, who won an Oscar for Hacksaw Ridge. He’s the main sound designer [on the movie], and I’m the composer. And together we were able to mix the movie, the way that you’ve heard it in a theater. And it was very special to be in control of, how is the music taking place in the specter, where you are in the theater. Also the give and take between the sound design departments. How can we make this constantly as fluent as possible without trying to fight each other? That’s one thing.

Secondly is that I feel there’s a lot of room nowadays for different forms of interpretation of what film music is. And I consider myself, I call it, a “full contact composer.” I’m not a guy that sits behind a piano with a piece of paper and writes down the notes that will be orchestrated and played by the orchestra. I’m a very physical musician. My studio is packed with stuff – guitars, bass guitars, amplifiers, synthesizers, outboard effects units. I like to turn knobs, I like to hold something, I like to drum on my drum kit.

What I brought to Hollywood scores when Mad Max: Fury Road came out is – how aggressive a rock ‘n roll a film score could be – including the orchestra. Make them almost break their instruments, to a point. Take the recordings and use that as basis material to then do gnarly stuff with – put it through guitar distortion pedals, do all kinds of stuff with it. And I think that that was a breath of fresh air in Hollywood. That a score like that was done pretty much genuine to what a music style would be. And the fact that I play multiple instruments, the fact that I played in reggae bands, the fact that I played in 80s bands with synthesizers, but also industrial metal & hip hop music. I can take those elements, what I’ve learned, and I can inject that into my film score in a very genuine, almost, artist’s way. It doesn’t feel like somebody’s trying to be something [or sound like something], no, that person is [authentically] what the sound is. If that makes sense…

Yeah, it does. I also noticed [in the video for the interview] that your studio reminds me a lot of Hans Zimmer’s studio. You are surrounded by all this equipment and technology, and you have your two monitors in the middle, and you work in this space like he does. Is your studio setup inspired by working with Hans Zimmer?

Holkenborg: No – not at all. That’s what we liked about each other. I remember when we initially started collaborating, at some point we came up with the idea that we could collaborate more effectively if I had a studio right there at Remote Control. So for 2 and 1/2 years, I did have a studio at Remote Control, and when he walked into my studio for the first time when everything was there, he said, this is the best room at Remote Control, because it feels like a musician is is living in here. Not just a computer with a keyboard and that’s it. And if there’s one guy that I can text at 2AM in the morning, just like, “Hey, did you see this new synth that has come out?” It’s Hans. We constantly text about gear.

It’s clear I’m very thankful that he took me under his wing. What I really learned from him was the political side of things of being a film composer. And being a good manager of your time and manager of other people; managing expectations; what to do and what not to do when you analyze a picture musically. Those were things that were extremely valuable [to learn] from him. And the fact that he made it possible for me to be independent in this film scoring world. I think the most important thing he did to me was, after 2 and 1/2 years, he gave me a tap on the shoulder and said, “you can do this on your own… You’re ready. Go for it.” I will always be thankful he took me on and we became friends in the process. It’s nice with fellow Europeans to talk to each other because we’re straightforward – we don’t dance around the bush [sic], we just go right at it and we’re very direct. It is great to have him in my life and to talk to him every now and then.

I also want to ask about all of this technology around you. It has become essential for modern day musicians to use this technology, not just synthesizers but anything that can add and enhance the sound. And I want to ask you about how important and useful all of this new technology has become to allowing you to create exactly the sound you want to create?

Holkenborg: Well, again, if we jump back into history. Every technical advancement that has been made in science immediately led to a whole new style of music that wasn’t there before. [For example:] when the organ was invented, the church organ; when the piano was invented; when people built the first violin; the first brass instruments; the first woodwinds instruments. Every time when there was a new advancement in science, incredible instruments were being built. And because the instruments were being built, new things were possible. The introduction of the theremin around 1900, then the introduction of the electric guitar, the guitar in general, the guitar amps, and then the first guitar effects pedals, the first wave of synthesizers, and so on. I worked with Gary Numan once who had this band Tubeway Army in 1977, and he released the first album that was called “Are ‘Friends’ Electric?“

It’s still one of the best electro pop songs ever written in history. But he was actually a singer / songwriter. His brother brought a synthesizer to the studio and said, “look what I got.” And they started playing around with it, and before we knew it, it became that incredible classic album. We see it in electronic music through the decades, how the introduction of new techniques and faster processes, new music would start to arise because of it. And the introduction of certain types of effects in the past led to a whole different production of albums and such. So in my world, this is extremely important – that when something new comes out, it enables you to do something different and to make different sounds. And I think constantly embracing that technology is interesting to push the envelope of music.

Of course we live in a very scary time period with artificial intelligence, but even with that, I’m not looking the other way because it’s just here, and it’s never going to go away… So you can look the other way and pretend it doesn’t exist, but it’s here and it will go rapidly fast. I think the best way is to embrace it, and see how you can use it to advance on your own with it, because it’s not going to go away. The electric amplifier and the electric guitar are still here after 80 years.

Do you need to visit any of the movie sets to feel immersed enough to understand what kind of sound you need to be creating? Do you ever build your scores purely from a script? How much immersion do you need as the composer to actually develop the sound for each movie?

Holkenborg: A movie set sounds very romantic, but in fact it’s actually not. It’s basically a wall of things that we’re going to be seeing on camera, but outside that, there’s nothing there. It’s like the classic movie sets of western cowboy movies where it’s just the facade of the village, with lumber poles, so it kind of looks like a real city, but when you’re there, it’s obviously not a city. Usually visiting a set is a luxury that barely any composer has, unless the movie’s being shot close to where you are. Especially the bigger movies with long post-production times and long lead-ins into the release. Furiosa was being shot in 2021 and 2022 and I was simply knees deep into another film, finishing another film. You usually don’t come in until the shooting is done, and the post-production phase has started. And on Furiosa, that was 2 and 1/2 years, and Fury Road was also more or less 2 and 1/2 years.

I’ve heard sometimes that composers do get involved very early on. I think it was even Hans Zimmer at one point who said he began creating themes as soon as he read the screenplay, he could already start envisioning the music and working on it right away.

Holkenborg: With George [Miller], I’ve encountered all possible scenarios, which are the main three. They are… You see a section of the movie that is being shot, but other points in the movie are in progress, not yet shooting. So you have a very good idea visually what it’s going to be. This was the case on Fury Road, and then it still took 2 and 1/2 years [for them to finish working on it].

The theme for Three Thousand Years of Longing purely started on the conversation between me and George, what the movie was about. And I hadn’t read the script [yet]. I didn’t see the film. It was way before filming. And George decided that he wanted the music to be done before he started shooting the film. And he wanted to play the music on the set. So the actors were playing towards the music. A very unique scenario, almost like when Ennio Morricone worked with Sergio Leone for Once Upon a Time in America, where all the music was recorded before and the actors would act on the music.

And for our third movie together, Furiosa, it began when he told me what the story was. Then I read the script, but never saw the film [while they were shooting]. I started completely designing what the world was going to be for her [Furiosa]. And eventually he gave me the film really late. He said, “on this particular movie, I want you to see it only when I’m done with the editing.” Because he said, “you can see the movie only once, after that it becomes work.” So it’s only the first time you have the first time experience.

Many movie [productions] nowadays have massive green screens all over the place. Sometimes a section of the set is fully built and the rest is being added with CGI. So the whole idea of visiting a set is more romantic actually than essential.

What kind of movies are you drawn to work on? I noticed you mainly make scores for many big, sweeping epic sci-fi movies or massive fantasy adventures. What inspires you the most as a composer? Are you inspired by art or the process of creating the scores? Or is it something else that inspires you as a musician nowadays?

Holkenborg: Well, for starters, what drew me into film [in the first place] is that multiple different forms of art are being combined into one product. It’s a synthesis of the acting, the directing, visual effects, sound design, mixing, and music – everybody at the top of their game butting heads together [to figure out] how to make this really, really great. Even the movies that are more about form than they are about substance… Even these movies, the people that work on them are so incredibly smart. They know exactly what they’re doing, what they’re creating, and who they’re creating it for. Whether it is Deadpool, or Mad Max, or the Snyder Cut of Justice League, or Batman v Superman, or other movies not done by me like Star Wars or Indiana Jones or the Marvel movies, they know exactly what they’re creating and who they’re creating it for.

And there are other type of movies that are purely substance and less about form, and now we’re zoning in into more of the art house type movies, of which I’ve done a few. Usually that’s the stuff I really watch late at night, streaming, like dark Scandinavian murder dramas that take 20 episodes to find the killer from one murder, not 20 people being slaughtered every episode, but just one murder. With this whole psychological drama to get to the end of it. I really love them both. And in both scenarios you work together with a really solid team of people that really know what they’re doing. And it depends on the time period. Usually the big blockbusters have a long lead in and it’s a lot of work.

It should actually be a separate Oscar category because working on a blockbuster is a marathon, while doing an alternative art house movie is not, it’s a sprint race. Like – okay, the music needs to be done in three or four weeks, which is so different than [on a blockbuster] a 2 and 1/2 year plowing to get to the end. It should be a separate category. It’s a completely different ball game. But the dynamics between all the people that work on them are exactly the same. Whether it’s a movie based on form or a movie based on substance.

My inspiration primarily comes from cooking. I like to cook for hours and hours on end, sometimes days on end, and I attack it with the same precision as music. And because I’m doing that, I can be really in the here and now. And when I’m in the here and now, that’s when ideas come to me.

Thank you to Tom Holkenborg for his time and to Infamous PR for arranging this interview.

George Miller’s Furiosa: A Mad Max Saga is already playing in movie theaters worldwide, exclusively on the big screen. Check your local listings for the showtimes and enjoy this exceptional post-apocalyptic action movie (read our review). You can also listen to the full album of Holkenborg’s score for Furiosa right here.

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